SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament

[DryFly]

Premiers opinion should NOT matter at all. He doesn’t participate and he doesn’t promote . He is the biggest deterrent for Fmp community

[koN]

Sorry but making comments such as “matchups are a bigger flaw than the map” deserve to be criticized. That’s a moronic statement from someone that’s played this game for as long as you have.

I am calm. I’m simply refuting your points and yes criticizing stupid remarks. I don’t believe you’re doing this to try and ruin the game, or to be an ass. I think your reasoning is valid, but your process and idea on how to resolve the issue at hand is flawed and isn’t the way to go.

As I said before thank you for donating, running a tournament and trying to make a difference. But from your last few comments you’re in no position of knowledge of this game to make format changes. I am all for looking to make a difference to try and make balance in fastest better. The way that really only starts is by changing the map. That’s where this conversation needs to start.

[premierrrrr]

@Kon

It was made mostly for giggles. Made it as an alternative for the sake of variety so people can play on a map that has the same minerals/gas but a different layout. For the sake of Variety. I made the inner chokes so wide it should be rather difficult to choke there. Alternatively I can still increase the size and just make it a Cross shaped middle that has no inner choke. But again, mostly a map made for variety and testing, not for competition.

Onto a more serious issue however. The current standard map can do this(See image 1). This happened in the ZvP between Scan and Rillo

This seriously begs for some fixes to the map. I made a map that was intended to have as few changes as possible while fixing the major spot abuse problems, choke size problems, andbase size problems.(images 2-5).

Bigger base size 12 and 6. Smaller choke 12 and 6. Wider choke corners but less wide than fainer's version. More build room above minerals on 9 and 3 to combat spot abuse without adding a huge area of space inbetween.

[Newbport]

You can disagree with my point of view that's fine, we are all entitled to our opinions.

You don't have to use derogatory terms such as 'idiot' or 'moronic' to get your point across, let's be adults here.

I still disagree that predetermined will make things more imbalanced, it hasn't been tried yet.

If my idea is so flawed why does the current #1 ranked player agree with my format? I'm sure he has sufficient knowledge of the game.

In the end though if Sword or the community wants it RvR, it will be that.

[DryFly]

Premier you are wrong about the storm abuse. Use this game for reference
https://www.starcraftworld.net/index.php?action=league&mode=gamedetails&l=1&gid=2014

This is why u don’t know the game at all

[premierrrrr]

Premier you are wrong about the storm abuse. Use this game for reference
https://www.starcraftworld.net/index.php?action=league&mode=gamedetails&l=1&gid=2014

This is why u don’t know the game at all

I was watching it live. He was storming over the space onto the hive and killing drones. go watch the replay.

[DryFly]

And look how I change direction of drones to not be stormed
Re watch the replay near mid/end game

[DryFly]

I corrected it after I did it wrong at The start.

This is why u are incredible at talking about the map. Not my fault u and scan didn’t know this trick

[FaINeR]

The idea is not stupid, the intention is to make it fairer, that should be done in a separate tournament that is tested.

Here the west community is very old and they are stubborn to change so I doubt  play predetermined M/U's and map change. By the way, predetermined M/U's as described by scan is better

The fastest Koreans do play that way as Newport says. Also what kokane and kon says is yes or no, that is, terran vs zerg, the zerg knows about the bunker rush that is very damaging, he could do swan pool first and the terran would be sold or conversely 3 rack vs swanpool first now is the zerg sold and you can always defend against choke vs bunker rush. P vs Z players can react quickly to what they are playing the idea is fast exploration. are excuses.

The strategy, the sense of the game does not change much rvsr and mus. Early exploration is more important. A prottos can go to tech early either vs terran or zerg, it doesn't change at all be rvsr orpredetermined M/U's.
 In predetermined M/U's if it hurts more to the toss with  usually midbuild does because the counterpart is easier by know.

In high level the pairings is more fair and it would be good to try it but play rvsr is more fun.

As for the map, bxer is right that space 3.0 would be the most indicated to avoid abuser spot terran up, a rule would be to prohibit confrontation Terra ariiba spot 1 and 11 vs spot 3 and 9 if they play with the original map but I still don't like it. because the emotion of doing the game is lost again.  Too i agree with cole don’t like vetoing

[premierrrrr]

My point is the fact that is is even possible, on a spot that is already exposed to abuse, is ridicilous. There are too ways to abuse is my point. Ways of abuse specific to the spawning locations. That in itself is a HUGE reason to fix it and make the map more balanced and stop clinging onto imbalance as if it BELONGS.

[DryFly]

Premier another reference for u https://www.starcraftworld.net/index.php?topic=1048.msg10907#msg10907
Watch the replay attached in this post .

Don’t cry storm from above when it’s avoidable

Now tel me I’m right plz cuz u did not know this trick

[koN]

Premier, 

We’re all well aware of the map issues and abuses for it. Yes the map is clearly the issue. As I’ve been saying for the last few posts. I also don’t believe you made this map for giggles, as witnessed on webbot this morning after you made the map you commented in channel to Fainer that this is the best map you’ve created and you blew your own mind lol. Hard to believe anything you say.

Port,

I already told you why Scan likes it. He’s a low player, and they pick matchups and have forever. Which works for low money, it doesn’t work for fastest however. He has great knowledge of low maps and very little of fastest. He admits that by saying “I’m new to to fastest”. Of course he’s going to resort to his knowledge of low money and lean to a way that favours his experiences there.

As I also stated earlier host a tournament of this format to try out now and see the outcome. Don’t look to try something new for the finals. I’ll bring back the sports analogy. When leagues bring in rule changes, they get tested out at lower levels first before being implemented into the pros. They test out their ideas before putting it in, which to me makes sense. They don’t just put in a new rule and be like well damn that really sucked. Too bad we ruined an NBA finals with that change. Oh well.

If you want to be an adult, be able to take criticism with a grain of salt. Again I’m sorry, but if you’re going to make comments such as you did expect to be criticized.

[premierrrrr]

Premier, 

We’re all well aware of the map issues and abuses for it. Yes the map is clearly the issue. As I’ve been saying for the last few posts. I also don’t believe you made this map for giggles, as witnessed on webbot this morning after you made the map you commented in channel to Fainer that this is the best map you’ve created and you blew your own mind lol. Hard to believe anything you say.

Port,

I already told you why Scan likes it. He’s a low player, and they pick matchups and have forever. Which works for low money, it doesn’t work for fastest however. He has great knowledge of low maps and very little of fastest. He admits that by saying “I’m new to to fastest”. Of course he’s going to resort to his knowledge of low money and lean to a way that favours his experiences there.

As I also stated earlier host a tournament of this format to try out now and see the outcome. Don’t look to try something new for the finals. I’ll bring back the sports analogy. When leagues bring in rule changes, they get tested out at lower levels first before being implemented into the pros. They test out their ideas before putting it in, which to me makes sense. They don’t just put in a new rule and be like well damn that really sucked. Too bad we ruined an NBA finals with that change. Oh well.

If you want to be an adult, be able to take criticism with a grain of salt. Again I’m sorry, but if you’re going to make comments such as you did expect to be criticized.

Fainer and I have been making ridicilous maps for months now and we always, usually in pm, call the other out claiming "i am better than you" "check my new best map". It's a fun little thing we got going. What you read, was sarcasm. As once he joined my lobby we just spammed XD and LOL for a full minute.

Also, SCW is as lower league as it gets. The consequences of change that apply to major and premier leagues are way more severe than any consequences a small lower league like SCW will face.

[DryFly]

Premier did u watch the reps ? Did you learn something ?

[koN]

But it’s the premier fastest league, as it’s the only fastest league. So it’s our premier league by default.