StarCraft World
GENERAL => General Discussion => Topic started by: EviL- on September 30, 2018, 08:04:55 am
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enserio no entiendo que esa basura de matt pueda llevarse el premio .. debe haber algun torneo entro los 5 o 6 primeros (menos los que quieren ganar por su clan como pablo) matt es buen jugador como josé y goldscv pero para ser un buen ganador creo que debemos enfrentarnos
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seriously I do not understand that rubbish of matt can take the prize .. there must be a tournament between the first 5 or 6 (except those who want to win for his clan like pablo) matt is a good player like joseph and goldscv but to be a good winner I think we should face
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Pablo always scared me
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your tournament that never worked today do it JACE
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Why would we create a last minute tourney when we never planned one in the first place? Why doesn’t Matt deserve the prize? Pm me if you want.
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If there is a tournament it should be the best 3 of this season and less dodgers so for me, everything vs everything, bo9 between Matt, Jose and Goldscv is perfect ..
But beatz have reason too. gl
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We’re not going to make a last minute tournament because evil couldn’t get enough games in, doesn’t make no sense. You have about 12 hours to get some games in. You didn’t even play in it last time when they gave you multiple chances did you?
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I really dont care who wins, but if a picker wins this season, then it clearly shows that you really should always have these RvR tournaments after ladder. For me picking P and winning a season doesnt really count (nothing against you Super)V(Pro). I mean only playing Protoss, which has a much higher average win rate than zerg and terran, is just much easier than playing all the races. and claiming someone is dodging because he doesnt want to play PvP only is a questionable statement.
i would take the top 8 seeded like (1v8 4v5 3v6 2v7) and let them play a RvR single elimination bo5 bracket with bo7 finals. ladder should only qualify you for the tournament and give you a better seed. so dodging would be less likely and people would actually want to improve their random and play vs good opponents in order to train for the tournament win
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At this point, it’s like nobody is gonna be happy. When we had tourney people were bitching and not we don’t people are bitching.
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Ofc not in this season. It always should be clear from the start if there is a tournament or not. And if there was no tournament announced then of course Super)v(pro is the legitimate winner of this season. I am talking in general for future seasons.
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It’s just last time the tournament kept getting pushed back because people couldn’t find time, time zones didn’t match up and etc. it’s just at end of the day people aren’t going to be happy. Last time we had a tourney evil had 2 chances to play and didn’t take advantage of it. Now all of a sudden we need to have one?? People just aren’t gonna be happy with who wins. Pro will be somebody who had to pick P to win, smurf will be a dodger/obs cheater, Jose will be a “hacker/cheater”. Can’t win either way with the community
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ye sure. but dunno it just feels weird that a p picker can win the whole season. i mean if this keeps happening, we might see every topplayer only playing protoss and then this league basically will be reduced to a PvP league which is very boring most of the times and has a much higher probability to be over 1 hour long compared to other matchups. i agree that picking a race shouldnt be forbidden in the ladder, but then there should be a tournament at the end of the ladder where it is in fact RvR. and just clearly state that people will have 1 week to play their bo5 (or bo7 respectively) and then kick them out of the tournament rigourosly if they havent played. no one can tell me he cant play 1 bo5 in a week (unless he is on vacation or something and then he has to forfeit anyway).
but you are definetly right that there will always be crying in this community. but ye by now everyone should know that this community isnt the nicest or friendliest. especially considering the fact that people frightened away preMier, who did a great job last season with his tournament. ppl calling him out for a "bad tournament", are just retarded. but considering the fact that most people behave like retards in this community, it is no wonder ^^
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Evil I’ve tried to play you maybe 30 times this season. You’ve dodged every single time. Knowing fully well I can’t play rvr all you say is “rvr”? Then smile when I say I’m a picker and either go afk or leave channel.
Also everyone knows you are protoss picker. Dont get me wrong, its your right to pick since it isnt forbidden, but ye then also dont lie about it lol^^
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Evil you were inactive in the last tournament without reason other then the fact that “ you don’t feel like playing vs Mamba right now”. Why would we believe you wanna play in this tournament? Just seems like you have a problem with Matt winning
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Evil you were inactive in the last tournament without reason other then the fact that “ you don’t feel like playing vs Mamba right now”. Why would we believe you wanna play in this tournament? Just seems like you have a problem with Matt winning
This.
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You have been playing this for so many years and it would be fair if we play RvR as almost everyone does. Despite that, I can beat your P cannon. But it is not the fact we are just top 4 (why smurf does not matter) and we play my I'm not interested in the prize but to be a fair winner despite missing many as cole dinko day hash sven hydra etc
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MARK i will only say: do you know how to play 1s 2s?
learn porfavor
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MARK i will only say: do you know how to play 1s 2s?
learn porfavor
I’m washed up man, I’m terrible now lmao. But like I said early you have about 9 hours now so hop on and try to win it if you really wanted too.
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You have been playing this for so many years and it would be fair if we play RvR as almost everyone does. Despite that, I can beat your P cannon. But it is not the fact we are just top 4 (why smurf does not matter) and we play my I'm not interested in the prize but to be a fair winner despite missing many as cole dinko day hash sven hydra etc
No it wouldn't be fair to change the rules last minute on Matt just because you don't agree with him winning. If you had that much of a problem with him picking P, you could've brought up this topic anytime throughout the season. At least that would give him time to prepare for a RvR tournament finale
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well then that matt wins is fair and it's over
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Lmfao, Really Evil. I havent been on that much latley but already saw how you dodge Matt when he ask you to play. Oh Right, you prob went "afk" right? - _ -
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2-0 I raped you ez noob.
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i think its stupid to complain about picking P in fpm. matt and a lot of people thinks its the best race in the map so why deny them what they deem the greatest chance of winning? what if a godlike Z picker or a T picker (like flash) comes along? do we ban them from picking Z or T?
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No its not stupid. It was previously shown in statistics how much of an advantage protoss has on Fastest. If anyone denies that protoss is overpowered on Fastest, then they probably never played Fastest. I mean Mike, I know you are good and I know you know that Protoss is OP on Fastest. I agree that picking shouldnt be forbidden in the ladder stage (since anyone can just not play the picker, if they dont want to), but then there has to be a RvR tournament. Sure you can overcome that deficit in games, but in the long run even Flash would lose more against Protoss than he is used to from low money maps. Storm and Reaver drops are just too good. Yea nowadays with Valkyries being used for anti-drop, it evened out a bit, but still this one deadly storm can always hit you, in a moment of negligence.
And why deny them the greatest chance of winning? Simply so this doesnt end up in a boring PvP fest. It's for the greater good and quite frankly most ppl play RvR on ladder, so why should most ppl have to take the disadvantage of being random and having to learn 9 matchups as opposed to the p picker only having 3 matchups to learn.
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Stop crying about ppl picking p, or make som rules. Max 3 cannons at entrance.
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the only reason i'd say P is OP in 1s FPM is because of mind control, but now that it is banned i'd say the races are pretty much even, at the highest level.
i believe now with flash and koreans labbing T in FPM more seriously than ever before, it's only a matter of time before T becomes optimized and TvP balance shifts. eventually, and hopefully, a great Z will come along and do the same for ZvT/ZvP.
race imbalances are so negligible. the positional imbalances, in FPM is a much bigger issue
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I just leave this thread in here: https://www.starcraftworld.net/index.php?topic=176.0
Sure this was for a previous season (season 2 I think or so, not sure though), but I don't think the numbers changed drastically. At least not in the foreign scene. You cant compare the foreign scene with korean super gosus anyway. This is strictly divided in low money scene as well. Sure tendencies of the korean meta always transition also into the foreign scene, but still it is not comparable. Especially Flash is just an exceptional talent that would probably excel in anything that is related to Broodwar. And yes I already mentioned the "new" meta of Valkyries to defend drops. But valkyries arent cheap and defending storm and reaver drops until you have a decent sized valkyrie army is pretty hard anyway.
Statistically Protoss has a winrate of 66.9% in PvT and 64.2% in PvZ. So in average Protoss picker have 65.55% winrate in Protoss vs Non-Protoss. And thats obviously a huge boost for just picking one race.
Again I am not arguing that protoss picking should be forbidden in the ladder stage, but that there has to be RvR tournament afterwards. People can just decide to not play protoss pickers anyway...
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the only reason i'd say P is OP in 1s FPM is because of mind control, but now that it is banned i'd say the races are pretty much even, at the highest level.
i believe now with flash and koreans labbing T in FPM more seriously than ever before, it's only a matter of time before T becomes optimized and TvP balance shifts. eventually, and hopefully, a great Z will come along and do the same for ZvT/ZvP.
race imbalances are so negligible. the positional imbalances, in FPM is a much bigger issue
You're wrong there. While yes, T centric players have been improving their ability to play TvP, the improvement won't be sufficient to bridge the gap. P players also keep improving. The statistics among top players tell a clear story. P in PvT has a huge winrate advantage(over 80% winrate for P). Saying the imbalance on FMP is negligable is ludicrous. However there are some factors we also have to keep in mind that affect the match up on the Korean map that are different from the western version.
- The amount of stacked Mineral patches being lower on SUPER map is advantageous for T because the race requires less miners compared to P or Z. Advantage for T
- Turrets can't see over the walls, making it easier to fly drops in. Shuttles can see over the walls without getting hit by turrets, making it easier for early drops to look for weaknesses in turret formations. Also makes it easier for P to just drop a bunch of units ON TOP of the turrets without any shuttle loss. Huge advantage for P
- P needs less gas income than Terran and can function off only a +1 nexus. Terran needs higher gas income to function on higher tech builds and requires more/up to 4CC to mine from all the gas. That's a downside for T and an advantage for P.
- Spots 12 and 6 have a hard time spotting a drop if the drop flies against the top or bottom edge of the map due to there being Gas Geysers all the way to the base walls that can obscure the clarity of the colors on the minimap. Advantage for P.
- Depending on earlier or later versions being played, the corner chokes are way bigger. This doesn't provide much of a downside for P but it does provide a downside for T. Players have to invest more into their chokes and enemies get a wider unit spread, so less bottlenecking. Advantage for P
- Both races can land on the walls(later versions). This offers a bigger advantage for terran because of siege tanks. Advantage for T but can also be a advantage for P in some niché situations.
There are a couple more interactions that are different but all in all, the versatility protoss has and the ability to build an entire base with just one probe offers protoss many advantages over other races.
And on EviL- not playing for the tournament last season, he chose work over gaming. Lets just be glad he didn't decide to cheat because of it.
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the only reason i'd say P is OP in 1s FPM is because of mind control, but now that it is banned i'd say the races are pretty much even, at the highest level.
i believe now with flash and koreans labbing T in FPM more seriously than ever before, it's only a matter of time before T becomes optimized and TvP balance shifts. eventually, and hopefully, a great Z will come along and do the same for ZvT/ZvP.
race imbalances are so negligible. the positional imbalances, in FPM is a much bigger issue
You're wrong there. While yes, T centric players have been improving their ability to play TvP, the improvement won't be sufficient to bridge the gap. P players also keep improving. The statistics among top players tell a clear story. P in PvT has a huge winrate advantage(over 80% winrate for P). Saying the imbalance on FMP is negligable is ludicrous. However there are some factors we also have to keep in mind that affect the match up on the Korean map that are different from the western version.
- The amount of stacked Mineral patches being lower on SUPER map is advantageous for T because the race requires less miners compared to P or Z. Advantage for T
- Turrets can't see over the walls, making it easier to fly drops in. Shuttles can see over the walls without getting hit by turrets, making it easier for early drops to look for weaknesses in turret formations. Also makes it easier for P to just drop a bunch of units ON TOP of the turrets without any shuttle loss. Huge advantage for P
- P needs less gas income than Terran and can function off only a +1 nexus. Terran needs higher gas income to function on higher tech builds and requires more/up to 4CC to mine from all the gas. That's a downside for T and an advantage for P.
- Spots 12 and 6 have a hard time spotting a drop if the drop flies against the top or bottom edge of the map due to there being Gas Geysers all the way to the base walls that can obscure the clarity of the colors on the minimap. Advantage for P.
- Depending on earlier or later versions being played, the corner chokes are way bigger. This doesn't provide much of a downside for P but it does provide a downside for T. Players have to invest more into their chokes and enemies get a wider unit spread, so less bottlenecking. Advantage for P
- Both races can land on the walls(later versions). This offers a bigger advantage for terran because of siege tanks. Advantage for T but can also be a advantage for P in some niché situations.
There are a couple more interactions that are different but all in all, the versatility protoss has and the ability to build an entire base with just one probe offers protoss many advantages over other races.
And on EviL- not playing for the tournament last season, he chose work over gaming. Lets just be glad he didn't decide to cheat because of it.
whatever, i'll drop the race balance thing for now... it just pisses me off completely when people complain about race matchup when instead they could be using that time and energy to figuring out what Z and T could be doing to even things out. i mean look at all the cancerous strats matt uses as P... there isn't any effort into finding the zerg or terran equivalents. i believe the strats are there somewhere in the game, they just aren't as obvious as protoss ones and probably require deeper digger, far past even the current "gosu korean" meta.
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whatever, i'll drop the race balance thing for now... it just pisses me off completely when people complain about race matchup when instead they could be using that time and energy to figuring out what Z and T could be doing to even things out. i mean look at all the cancerous strats matt uses as P... there isn't any effort into finding the zerg or terran equivalents. i believe the strats are there somewhere in the game, they just aren't as obvious as protoss ones and probably require deeper digger, far past even the current "gosu korean" meta.
There are some strategies that counter some specific P builds, but most of them require a level of multitasking, micro skill and raw apm to execute well. Most westerners simply don't have the required level in those three to pull them off and are instead relegated to less punishing strategies and more passive builds. Plus aggressive T and Z strategies carry an amount of risk that aggressive P strategies don't.
Jaedong showed some really strong ZvP builds in his series vs 458!!. Heavily reliant on multitasking, very high apm and near perfect muta micro. Something that not even the best western low money zergs might be able to pull off.
Brain has some neat builds relying on hydralisk micro into lurkers/hydra mix but carries too much risk if apm isn't high enough.
There are more interesting builds and strategies but I doubt they'd find solid footing here in the west because of the skills required.
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If you are a great player, why not challenge yourself and pick Z or T instead? If flash came to this league, im sure he's not going to pick race to get an advantage, he'd probably pick Z and still rape our asses.
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Come on Justin, this game is more than 20 years old, you can not argue about balance in FMP! Clearly P is overpowerer on FMP. If you want to deny this, clearly you are just a troll.
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Why are we even talking about this in 2018....... Like really.